Favorite bands?

[Kino]

What are some of your favorite bands?

[KAZMAIER]

To list a few: 1. Blue Rodeo
2. Alabama
3. CCR
4. Guns&Roses
5. Little Texas
6. The Mavericks
7. Sawyer Brown

[Anne]

To be absolutely specific...

The Police = All time favorites.

The Killers = Modern Day favorites.

But I like a little bit of lots of different kinds of music. I'm very much on a Black Keys and a Mumford and Sons kick right now.

[MotherGraham~]

That's not quite hard, seeing as I've got a huge list of bands in my Winamp list.

#1: Dimmu Borgir (Symphonic Black Metal);
#2: Dark Funeral (Black Metal);
#3: Arcturus (Progressive, Symphonic Black & Doom Metal);
#4: Amon Amarth ("Viking" Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal);
#5: Moonspell (Gothic & Doom Metal);
#6: Eluveitie (Death & Folk Metal);
#7: Within Temptation (Gothic Metal);
#8: Finntroll (Extreme Metal, Folk Metal);
#9: Theatres Des Vampires (Gothic Metal, influenced by Doom & Black Metal);
#10: Slayer (Trash Metal, like Metallica).

[CemeteryGates]

#8: Finntroll (Extreme Metal, Folk Metal)


Saw them live a couple of years ago. I bought Skrymer and his girlfriend a beer or six. Such a cool guy. :D
Also, if you're into Theatres des Vampires, have you checked out Lord Vampyr? It's the "solo" project of the guy who used to sing and write everything for Theatres des Vampires. It's a bit less gothic and more melodic black metal, but it's definitely worth checking out if you haven't listened to it.


My all-time favorite band is Pantera. Listening to Dimebag Darrell on Cemetery Gates for the first time is what made me decide I wanted to dedicate my life to making music and aspiring to make others feel what I felt in that moment. :)


Other favorites include:

Bumblefoot
Buckethead
Therion
Rammstein
Tearstained
Mamá Ladilla
KoRn
Tierra Santa
Collide
Mägo de Oz
WarCry
Nevermore
Necrophagia
Gorelord
Wurdulak
Down
Sigh
Iced Earth
Satyricon
Cadaveria
Vreid
Symphony X
Ihsahn
Macabre
Saigon
Salem
Sentenced
Dream Theater
Soziedad Alkoholika
Sepultura
Type O Negative
Tad

And some others. :)

[Archangel]

#4: Amon Amarth ("Viking" Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal);
#6: Eluveitie (Death & Folk Metal);
#7: Within Temptation (Gothic Metal);
#8: Finntroll (Extreme Metal, Folk Metal);


Therion
Rammstein
KoRn
Collide
Symphony X
Dream Theater
Type O Negative

I like you people.

I have far too many bands that I love to list all of them, so I'll go with tops from genres.

In the Power Metal scene
Evergrey is a longstanding winner. Was the first band that got me into the European/Scandinavian metal scene, and I love 'em for it. Recent albums have been a bit blergh comparative to Inner Circle and Recreation Day, though.
Kamelot
Blind Guardian is win on a stick. Love Sacred Worlds from their latest album.
Sonata Arctica

Gothic/Symphonic Metal
Tristania's earlier albums (World of Glass, Beyond the Veil) and
Within Temptation are quite legendary in this scene.
Therion run close behind 'em, but Therion varies in style a bit. Secret of the Runes and Vovin I didn't care much for, but Lemuria was a top album.
Epica is also pretty nice, on occasion.

Progressive
Dream Theatre is pretty much the sole competitor, and they are quite legendary.

Death/Doom
Daylight Dies
Black Sun Aeon
Doom:VS
Draconian (Kind of Gothic Metal in itself, at times)
Swallow the Sun

Folk and/or Viking
Ensiferum are awesome, but I'm having a very hard time getting a hold of their early albums. For now it's just Victory Songs and From Afar, which are great anyhow.
Equilibrium has some epic songs, though combine it all being in german with shrieked and growled vocals, and you have no idea whatsoever of what the song is about. Blut im Auge is a great song, though.
Eluveitie I must concede, I'm not a huge fan. They have alot of songs I find meh, but there is the occasional gem, like Thousandfold or Quoth the Raven, that is pretty great.
Amon Amarth are just pure Viking win. Twilight of the Thundergod = the greatest melodic death/viking metal I've heard thus far.
Turisas are a band that, really, I like but don't love most of their songs. But, the re-recorded Battle Metal (2008) track is, well... Battle Metal. It's awesome.

[Jason]

I swear there are more obscure subgenres of metal than there are metal bands.

I'm a sucker for the less heavy stuff - my all-time favourite band is Jimmy Eat World, although I was one of the few who had heard of them before 'The Middle' made its way onto MTV playlists.
Besides that, I'm a big fan of Thrice (going to see them later this month!), Brand New, Finch, Straylight Run (RIP), Alkaline Trio, Jack's Mannequin... it's fairly varied stuff - I tend to like individual tracks and albums as opposed to everything a band does, as I find that as bands grow, their sound changes and evolves, sometimes for the better, sometimes not so much.

[Archangel]

When you've heard a large majority of different metal subgenres, and know perfectly well just how varied they are, it's perfectly reasonable that there are so many.

[MotherGraham~]

@Archangel
Dream Theater is definitely an extremely talented one. I like them a lot too. Also, I'd have to disagree with Twilight of the Thunder God. It's a good song, but my favourite one is definitely Under the Northern Star.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzjW--KUH1g

@Jason
Nothing about metal is obscure, IMO. In-fact, being a "true metalhead" or not is simply a matter of it 'being in your blood' or not. And I believe I know why I always understood metal - mainly black-, goth- and doom metal -, as even when I was a little child, I had a different mindset than most other children of my age, and highly admired dark art. Though not necessarily related to the metal scene, I do live with a grand, goth-setting of a fantasy, without a doubt. And I wouldn't want any other than this, either.

Also Jason, reading most lyrics of songs will help you understand metal a lot better. I highly regard lyrics myself, and consider it one of the - if not the - most important factors to a song.

[JustaBitOutside]

I really like this group Matt N Kim

[Archangel]

@Archangel
Dream Theater is definitely an extremely talented one. I like them a lot too. Also, I'd have to disagree with Twilight of the Thunder God. It's a good song, but my favourite one is definitely Under the Northern Star.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzjW--KUH1g

I was referring more towards Twilight of the Thundergod as an album, not just the song. As an album, it's my favourite Amon Amarth one. Under the Northern Star is my favourite song from any other album though.

[Anne]

I'm a sucker for the less heavy stuff - my all-time favourite band is Jimmy Eat World, although I was one of the few who had heard of them before 'The Middle' made its way onto MTV playlists.
Besides that, I'm a big fan of Thrice (going to see them later this month!), Brand New, Finch, Straylight Run (RIP), Alkaline Trio, Jack's Mannequin... it's fairly varied stuff - I tend to like individual tracks and albums as opposed to everything a band does, as I find that as bands grow, their sound changes and evolves, sometimes for the better, sometimes not so much.
Holy cow... I haven't heard anyone say "Finch" in like... 10 years. Are they still around? I saw them a few times. Alkaline Trio too, back when I was young and spent all my money on concerts.

I like your taste in music, Jason. Jimmy is super awesome. Did you hear their new album comes out in September?

Let's see... Jack's Mannequin! I heard the lead singer is getting back with his old band, Something Corporate. Which brings back all sorts of memories for me. I used to live like an hour from their hometown and my sister and I used to go to like every show and... I'll just stop now before it gets embarressing. I'll just say that we got to be kinda friends of the drummer's family.

[Jason]

Yeah, Finch broke up in '07 and then reformed last year. They've got a 4-track EP out, and it's pretty good. Somewhere between Say Hello To Sunshine and What It Is To Burn, says this listener.

As for SoCo, don't even get me started on that - I'm massively excited about any potential new music from them, although I'll happily admit that I wasn't so keen on North, their second album as I was Leaving Through The Window.

And good god yes I'm aware Jimmy have a new album coming - I'm really looking forward to it. I'm a little nervous, as I really don't want it to be one I don't like...

[Anne]

Oh yeah? I'll be sure to look that up! What It Is To Burn was my fave.

Leaving Through The Window was great. Their ep before that was too, and so was their previous album... what was it called? I can't remember for the life of me right now. The one with Konstantine on it.

Don't be nervous! I have total faith that Jimmy will can do nothing wrong and they will once again amaze us with their awesomeness.

[dimples]

Avenged Sevenfold
Motley Crue
Skillet
Mudvayne
Powerman 5000
Paramore
Blondie
Godsmack

[Anne]

Blondie! <3 Awesome Dimples!

Aw, I used to be a big Skillet fan too. How fun!

[Jason]

Leaving Through The Window was great. Their ep before that was too, and so was their previous album... what was it called? I can't remember for the life of me right now. The one with Konstantine on it.


Do you mean Songs For Silent Movies? I love that album. I think Walking By from that album is one of my favourite songs of theirs. Aside from Konstantine, obviously.

[CemeteryGates]

Therion run close behind 'em, but Therion varies in style a bit. Secret of the Runes and Vovin I didn't care much for, but Lemuria was a top album.

Really? Those two and Theli are probably my favorite albums by them.
But then, I haven't listened to a Therion album I didn't find absolutely mind-blowing.

[Archangel]

Sorry, not Vovin, no Deggial. Vovin was great. But yeah, I don't know, I just never got into those albums as much as the others. Got Lemuria and Sirius B together and loved it, got Vovin and loved it, loved Gothic Kabballah, just never got into Secret of the Runes and Deggial.

Haven't got/heard Theli yet, though.

[CemeteryGates]

Theli is where they shifted from their doom-ish death metal to their symphonic style. :)
Except for the 11-minute (or so) Siren of the Woods, every track on that album is a winner. Even the short instrumentals (intro, inter and outro) are pretty cool!

I agree, though, Deggial is among, if not my least favorite Therion release.

I have yet to listen to Gothic Kabbalah in its entirety, but the one song I did check out was pretty good.

[dimples]

Blondie! <3 Awesome Dimples!

Aw, I used to be a big Skillet fan too. How fun!

Blondie is one of the greatest!
Aren't you a Skillet fan anymore? I absolutely love their song Rebirthing

[Steph]

I used to be into some metal but uhm, you guys probably wouldn't appreciate the music I'm into at the moment.
At all haha.

It does change all the time.

Infact I'm gonna need to do a major clear out of my songs at the moment, can't be assed listening to dance music anymore haha. Need something new.

[CemeteryGates]

I used to be into some metal but uhm, you guys probably wouldn't appreciate the music I'm into at the moment.
At all haha.

It does change all the time.

Infact I'm gonna need to do a major clear out of my songs at the moment, can't be assed listening to dance music anymore haha. Need something new.


Haha, really? What metal bands were you into? :D

[Steph]

Ahh, let me see ... there was DevilDriver, Slayer, Lacuna Coil, Chimaira ...

God, I'm having problems remembering like, 7 years back.

Rammstein? Or is that more industrial?

Killswitch Engage, Static-X and KoRn?

Can't remember what else ... Ooh wait, someone called Helmet I think and Mudvein ... Mudveyn ... something like that.

[CemeteryGates]

Mudvayne? :p

Helmet is a great band! A bassist I used to play with got to jam with Page Hamilton once. Said the man was genius.
Rammstein is industrial metal... so both. :D

Well, you had a good taste. :p
Bit commercial, but still good. :)

[Noble1]

1.Dead kennedys
2.Rancid
3.(spunge)

[Steph]

Mudvayne? :p

Helmet is a great band! A bassist I used to play with got to jam with Page Hamilton once. Said the man was genius.
Rammstein is industrial metal... so both. :D

Well, you had a good taste. :p
Bit commercial, but still good. :)
Yes that's the one haha.

And oooh that's awesome.

Commercial?

[Archangel]

Mainstream. All of those bands are amongst the well known ones that primarily cater to the masses so they can put wads of cash in their pockets.

It doesn't make them bad bands, per se, but I do find it often restricts their musical style to the very narrow bracket of the commercial population (So pretty much just the Americans). And given the Yanks tend mostly to listen to Rap, R&B, and Pop... yeah...

Generally speaking, commercial bands tend to be a bit more generic. Real metal (in my opinion anyhow), with real depth, complexity and skill, will more often come from Scandinavian regions (Finland, Germany, Sweden, for example). That's where symphony orchestras and full choirs become reasonably standard in metal. Good stuff.

[MyNameDidntFit]

I don't think I've seen many horses higher than that when it comes to talking about music opinions...

[Archangel]

Note the 'in my opinion' part.

Pretty hard to say someone's up themselves when all they're doing is saying they like something.

And asides from what was in my opinion, I explained basic commercialism in music. People cater to their audience--that is what a commercial band does. A commercial metal band will be playing mainstream metal, because it's what people buy most of. Mainstream metal is, quite simply, more primitive. That's not opinion, it is largely fact. There are fewer instruments and it is much more straightforward musically.

If that's the sound you like, congratulations, I don't give a toss. Personally, I don't like it; personally I find the only really good stuff is not mainstream.

[Nonsequitur]

Just come out and claim stuff you don't like is stupid. It works great... That's what I do. A bands contract or label status shouldn't be considered when deciding if the music is actually good. It is or isn't, and I can tell you both, that the music you are debating is crap anyhow.

Go get yourselves a copy of the Beattles White album and go crazy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfkVGCU_BA

[MotherGraham~]

Personally, I don't like it; personally I find the only really good stuff is not mainstream.
Well said, I couldn't agree more to that. I found myself always seeking non-mainstream bands. They deliver, as you put it, real metal. Good examples would be bands such as Eluveitie, Moonspell, the old Dimmu Borgir (they've gone rather mainstream unfortunately), Dark Funeral (even though they were licensed with MetalBlade, it really isn't considered mainstream, fortunately) and a load of other bands.

[Serio]

My music taste varies, but it tends to stay within the rock genre.

Cold Staind Coldplay Luar Na Lubre Alter Bridge Breaking Benjamin 30 Seconds To Mars

Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. Luar na Lubre doesn't quite fit to the "rock" genre, as it's a Celtic music ensemble from Galicia. Go on, hit me with a stick ;)

[CemeteryGates]

Like Archangel said, commercial music is more "primitive" (as he put it), and that's a fact, not an opinion; at least where rock music and variant genres are concerned (but it also applies to several other genres, like salsa, hip-hop, contemporary classical, etc...).
My band and I play commercial hard rock/metal, and it's definitely the project I've had where composing is the most simple. Not easiest, because I have trouble being so simple... but yeah. You really can't play 17/9 time signatures in a realy high tempo with exotic scales and expect that to sell. But give people a couple of fifths, a verse-chorus-verse with maybe a bridge thrown in, lyrics about love, and you're on the right path to being rich and famous.


That said, I do like massive amounts of commercial music, metal too.
Honestly, I think I prefer new Dimmu Borgir to the older stuff. I also dig bands like Cradle of Filth, Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Pantera, Black Label Society, Metallica, Exodus, Slayer, etc...
But then, for every commercial band I listen to, there's another 5 relatively known ones and 10 really obscure ones.

There's a lot of genius stuff in the underground.



Serio, Luar na Lubre is an amazing band. :D
If I remember correctly, they have a few collaborations with Mägo de Oz, the most famous metal band from Spain, so they might not be completely isolated from rock. :)

Nonseq, the White Album is my favorite album by the Beatles. I still like the Rolling Stones better, though. :p

[Steph]

Ah right, well that shines a light on how some people view mainstream.

I don't really care if the band is maintstream, obscure or whatever, if I like the music, I'll listen to it.

Although, I've had a couple of arguments with people who say 'Oh I don't like that band because they're too popular,' or something like 'I knew that band before everyone else did'. It's as if they're saying it to look 'cool'. Bugs me.

But you guys do have some fair opinions there.

[Nonsequitur]

But give people a couple of fifths, a verse-chorus-verse with maybe a bridge thrown in, lyrics about love, and you're on the right path to being rich and famous.

Nonseq, the White Album is my favorite album by the Beatles. I still like the Rolling Stones better, though. :p

Sticky Fingers is one of my all time favorite albums, especially Sister morphine.

Plenty of great musicians have been commercially successful playing complicated music to the unwashed masses. Stevie Ray Vaughn, The Who, P-Funk, Santana and on and on. Were they playing the most complicated music they could come up with, probably not. Did Billie Holiday play complicated music? No, but it would be far easier to find technically excellent guitarists than to find a great torch singer of her quality.

[CemeteryGates]

I've been meaning to respond to this, but my ISP hates me.

I know Carlos Sanatana personally. While he has a tenchique I'm still several years away from, if I ever do get to that point, his writing is not really all that complex. He is an exceedingly polite gentleman and great conversationalist, though.
I don't think I've ever listened to something really technically proficient from The Who, although they're another band I like... possibly my favorite from their generation.
As for the rest of your examples... unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with their music to give you an informed opinion.


Anyway; I'm talking about the really complex stuff out there. As a metalhead, of course I know about some really technical metal bands. But I'm not saying metal musicians are above all... I'm saying, really technical music, regardless of genre, doesn't really sell. Examples:


In Metal. Compare these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EDtJBzakK0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2HxbeqENB8



To these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJP5MqniJZo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTdhXxxWREo


Or in Funk. Compare the first to the second:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOq5QPFY78c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe1ScoePqVA


Or in Jazz, naturally a genre supposed to be complex, free and innovative. Judge for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAq3pI5jBVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iKRT4XnPwg


And last, but not least, in rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzeqwhNTDk


As you can see, the commercial stuff is rather likeable, which isn't a bad thing. But the complex stuff is not as likeable... even where it's not very clear by just the music, you can tell who is the commercial one by other stuff.
Look at the jazz examples... John Patitucci is wearing, what? Formal trousers and a nice sweater in conservative colors.
And on the other hand, Jaco Pastorius is carrying a banged-up ugly bass and looks like a long-haired hippie.


It's like in movies, except you aren't seen as a pretentious elitist snob when you talk this subject on movies.
Let's take four examples. Mean Girls, 50 First Dates, Fight Club and Oldboy.
Now you tell me which two are widely considered to be light, simple pieces of entertainment, and which two are considered dense, complex works of artistic cinema.

Now, let's look at the numbers.
According to Wikipedia:

Mean Girls
Budget: $17 million
Gross Revenue: $129,042,871 (worldwide)


50 First Dates
Budget: $75 million
Gross Revenue: $196,482,882


Fight Club
Budget: $63 million
Gross Revenue: $100,853,753 (worldwide)


Oldboy
Budget: N/A
Gross Revenue: US$14,980,005 worldwide


Even Mean Girls, with a relatively small budget, made more money than Fight Club, despite the latter featuring famous Hollywood stars!
Oldboy, which was a smash hit in its native South Korea, didn't even make as much money as the Mean Girls budget.
If you've seen any of these movies you'll know that the commercial two don't feature controversial scenes or social statements in the form of metaphors. They're just fun and instant gratification, period.
And also, the commercial two aren't regarded as featuring spectacular perfomances by deeply skilled artists and unconventional direction techniques or outstanding photography, or that sort of stuff.


But people don't want to realize that music has infinitely more radical and extreme examples of this very same concept.
And that's what, personally, irritates me.
People don't put Mean Girls and Oldboy in the same category, and if they were to do just that, unless they were completely biased, they'd call Oldboy the better movie and say it like it's objective, no matter how much one could begin to philosophize by asking what defines better; but in an almost abstract manner, if someone has the balls to do this in music, they instantly become fascist snobs. The majority cannot call anything objectively better than anything else. They can't even think that maybe certain elements could be the base for debating what is better.
How could they? It's art, and it's absolutely subjective! Yet, every single art form has basic guidelines that define what is good and what isn't. Only in circles like that of beatniks and wannabe philosophers is this ignored.


Let's take an example in visual arts:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/Elimination/Artistic/IMG_0396.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/Elimination/Artistic/IMG_0604.jpg

Both of these are my own work, by the way.

Now, you can look at both of those and say that you think they're both nice, or they're both terrible, and that's subjectivity.
But you can say that the first is a shitty photograph because it was taken with a very high sensibility in a fast exposure time in a steady hand rather than a low sensitivity, slow exposure time and simply using a tripod, which would've been the good way to take that picture as it wouldn't feature the colorful grain effect when seen in full size. That's being objective, despite whichever you like better than the other.

But how is that objective, you ask yourself?
Like I said, that single factor is part of the objective elements that can help you judge, in this case, a photograph.
I have asked three other professional photographers their opinions on these two pictures, all of them of wildly varying levels of education, expertise and skill.
The three of them agree that the second is the better photograph, and for it's worth, all of them liked the second better as well.
On the other hand, I've asked a bunch of friends, family and even strangers who aren't photographers, professional or amateur, what they thought. All of them think both are good pictures but the overwhelming majority like the first one better.

What can we learn from these little "statistics" of mine?
That:
1. Lacking the technical knowledge, non-artists have simply gone with their taste, even sometimes judged the first as a better work based on its appeal to them.
2. Artists, knowing the elements to judge, agree that the second is better, and they also like it better, presumably because they can appreciate it beyond how most people do. They can also observe the flaws in the first that others can't appreciate.
3. The "better" work isn't going to be the artists' or educated observers' favorite just for being technically better. But it will often be a contributing factor.


And this same thing can be observed in literature. Not many will directly say Twilight was better than Hamlet, but I've seen a certain opinion so many times... an opinion that "I know Twilight isn't really well-written, but I love it so much!".
How can they say it's not very well written, and how can they say Shakespear is a better writer in objective terms despite their preference being Twilight?
Because the skill of the authors is more apparent in literature than it is in music, for some bizarre reason.


So, going back to the example songs I included above...
I tried to make it obvious that one musician or band plays with far more skill than the commercial counterpart, and said counterpart are songs that most of you will have heard at some point.
Perhaps it's not blatantly obvious at first... but a shallow look, even, is all it takes.

How is the Primus song better than the Radiohead song?
Well, I'll try to avoid being all technical as with the photography example, but it's really too simple. Several muted slap bass notes with an unconventional pedal work on the drums, and simple yet pretty but obvious intervals. The Radiohead song sounds simple, and the Primus song doesn't.
Now, the Radiohead song has lyrics about monotony in life in a modern society, sung with Thom Yorke's wonderful vocals, and the video is the most unconventional part of it, by far.
The Primus song has lyrics about some murderous hick, has horrible vocals and the video is meant to be disgusting.
Obviously, the Radiohead song will appeal to the regular listener in almost every sense. It's been carefully designed with that purpose.


The problem is that music is arguably a much bigger medium than any other form of art. Our top five movies don't see changes often, but we have five favorite bands every week, plus one or more all-time favorite bands. A lot of us listen to music while we take a walk, while we work out, while we shower, while we work, sometimes even while we're being intimate with our romantic partners!
But we're not usually watching movies, reading books or looking at sculptures during these activities.
That in part is a reason why music as a whole is cheapened and becomes entertainment rather than art, because no matter how much we adore art, we all need at least some of that brainless stuff that's just fun.
But the real problem, and why most people only really have access to entertainment in music and not art, is both, our education and a society that thrives on marketing.

In my country, we're taught to play the theme songs to popular movies on a plastic flute in school and call that musical education. Then your parents pick you up from up, turn on the car's radio and you have small variations of four basic radio station types:
1. News
2. Ranchera/cumbia/banda, etc... (shitty local music)
3. Pop... current and also retro, like 80s/90s
4. Techno/dance music/trance, whatever it's called but it's in 140 bpm tempo.

That's it. Out of tons and tons of genres and subgenres and the local music of so many countries in the world, we're limited to Pop, Techno (which nowadays isn't too different anyway) and the local music.
And since the Pop is always the same shit (lyrics about love or "smart" lyrics about current superficial subjects, strong label competition that causes a day in the station to be composed of no more than 80 different songs every several weeks), our musical education and knowledge is dumbed down.
Then, most likely in adolescence or young adulthood, we are introduced to the same shit in slightly different musical settings, such as indie rock, often by pretentious so-called music lovers or, as I call them, bar musicians, who are self-proclaimed musicians and artists, wannabe rockstars, who probably picked up guitar when they were 14 and are "self-taught" (through tablatures!). These bar musicians are so cool because they've learned a handful of chords, precisely the same handful that most popular songs of the last four decades all use, they've learned letter notation, no less, from their tablatures, and maybe they're even astute and ingenious enough to have figured out the harmonic structure that close to half of popular songs from the past five decades use, which is I-IV-V, or better yet, they believe they now know what a C major scale is, and they believe they're hot shit composers for it, but worse even, their friends think so too.
Then, those same experts with their musical authority gained through unlocking the arcane secrets of copying pop rock structures tell their friends that Slash would be the best guitarist in the world, if it wasn't for Jimi Hendrix and Kirk Hammet.
They also believe they're so great and immortal because of their "talent." Heh.
Then they're 40-something, wondering why they're still playing Iron Maiden and Nirvana covers in poorly-lit seedy bars where no one's sober enough to be paying attention to the music.


In the meantime, a young man or woman is out there, learning of the diatonic scale's seven modes, learning to read sheet music, realizing music theory applies to every instrument and only technique is needed to play several instruments, and later discovering counterpoint, cacophonies, odd time signatures and other topics, all while carefully studying all the music they can hear everywhere, and seeking out music that offers different elements and qualities to enjoy.
But after naturally wanting to share this area of their lives with their loved ones, they come upon a tragic realization. That no one listens to what they're trying to say because they are too busy listening to Lady Gaga's new single. So they accept to listen, but do so analyzing it, meticulously dissecting what their ears perceive.
They are simultaneously disappointed, saddened, angered and worried. They realize that 95% of what the world just listens to that which offers a quick fix of lyrics people can relate to or not even that but just serve a purpose as music they can dance to drunk on nightclubs, and are completely oblivious to the world of possibilities that exists, buried only by a thin layer called curiosity in this Internet age, yet one that many will never dig through.
They realize that many people choose not to indulge in the emotions, the passion and the deep introspection and many more things that art in general offers, and disregarding that in favor of cheap entertainment.
They slowly grow misanthropic at their epiphany of reality, knowing that they've spent all this time learning something that their loved ones won't ever appreciate, by their will.
They scorn the ones responsible for the propagation of this farce, and they begin viewing it as profligacy, developing opinions that their friends consider "extreme" and appropriate of an elitist snob, they feel alienated and misunderstood.

Oh, how many times have I seen this...




TL;DR version

Okay, ranting, sorry... this is what happens when I allow myself to go on typing random shit with little structure in the same post for almost four hours. :p

As a consequence of the lack of musical education in modern societies, the good stuff is buried by metric tons of Lady Gaga, Akon, PitBull and the likes, and those who believe there is more to music than that are hopeless elitist snobs with fascist tendencies, unless they can't decide on whether Slash is better than Kirk Hammett; then they are humble connoisseurs. :rolleyes:


EDIT: Perhaps this was foolish. I'm now half-expecting someone to just tell me I'm a snob. :D
I feel strongly about this, is all, so I felt compelled to give my opinion.

[Tiny Cy]

My eyes are bleeding!good post though :)
my favs are:
Roxy Music
Radiohead
Arcade fire
The Temptations
Tv On The Radio
Talking Heads
The Isley Brothers
Skunk Anansie
..that is all for now :)

[Nonsequitur]

That certainly was a long read, but thanks for putting it all down. I can sympathize with your internet problems my modem just went tits up so I've been cut off.

I think we may have a huge difference in perspective. I'm probably a bit isolated from the pop culture you seem to be wallowing in. Lady Gaga was in town last night, perhaps I should have gone down for some people watching.

Most the people I know play an instrument or 2 and listen to roughly the same stuff as me. No one I know would try to get me to go see Lady Gaga but the Jazz mandolin project or the string cheese incident seem to be in town every weekend and at this point I might prefer lady gaga. My little sister is the worst every time I see her she drags me to Jimmy Mak's jazz club.

I generally listen to classic rock. A lot of those bands were considered pop at the time. The Beatles were definitely a pop band when they started but ended up expanding what rock music could be. While none of them were jaw dropping musicians and would probably fit your bar-musician example (In fact that might be George Harrison's biography) they added elements to rock that hadn’t been tried before. The sitar, string and brass sections and purely electronic instruments were all made popular in rock by a pop band.

Myles Davis was pop at one time and probably the most famous jazz musician ever. Wild Cherry shouldn't be considered funk. Prince, James Brown and Janes Addiction are all more funky than the wild cherries, but parliament is in my opinion the gold standard of funk and quite popular. I think Maggot Brain was even played during an episode of house. I guess my point is that some bands become commercially successful do to talent. When this happens there is a huge rush to sign bands that have the same sound and the profiteering can get started. Most of those bands will have a bit of success and then will be forgotten, but just because the Monkeys were garbage doesn't mean the Beatles were the same.

I did take umbrage with you’re Shakespeare v. Twilight example. Shakespeare is unfortunately in a different language than we speak today and also in play form. Adaptations of his work have been successful. The Lion King is a pure rip of Hamlet. All they had to do was translate it to modern English and get some quality Shakespearian trained actors to do the read and boom. I always thought that Disney did the youth a disservice by not stating that The Lion King was an adaptation of Shakespeare.

I have to say that you are mostly right. I honestly just like a good debate. Slash or Hammet? I wouldn’t give either of them the number 2 spot. I like both but on pure ability to run a whole song simply by solo I would go with Eddie Hazel. Maggot brain is epic and no vocals were really needed. The whole song is carried by one long solo. Technically there is better but Eddie’s ability to sing a song with his guitar was amazing.

I was thinking about Santana and it adds up in your favor (Other than considering that you are near his level. Good luck with that). He got all kinds of recognition for teaming up with all kinds of pop stars and a Grammy to boot. I think my personally favorite album was Gin Go Lo Ba. That Southwest flavor hasn’t really ben done as well since Santana IMO,

PS I put the Who in there for there ground breaking qualities. Punk, rock opera, and probably metal owe the who for the work they did. They also used effects and supplemental bands/orchestras before they were accepted as the norm.

[JustaBitOutside]

I hate music, too many notes! :)

[Anne]

Aren't you a Skillet fan anymore? I absolutely love their song Rebirthing
Nah, I think they got soft. And the chick's voice really grates on me for some reason. But I do appreciate their use of things like violins and etc in their music.