MG's Panel-Based Quiz-Game Thing #3 -- GAME THREAD!

[MyNameDidntFit]

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr343/MNDF_gfx/Other/MGPBQGTcopy.png


Right mates, now, what we got 'ere is a bit'f a bloody competition. I don't wanna see none of your nancy British crap in my ring, an' none of that Yank shit neither. What this 'as been under that ponce 'ministrator is nothin' but a bleedin' tea party, an' I'll have none of that now that I'm runnin' the shindig. This'll be done by 'stralian rules, or by no rules at-all, which are 'bout the same damn thing when ya get down to it. I'm lookin' ta see blood, blokes (and the lady, o'course *tips hat*), and if I don't yer'd better be ready to see some negative points in ya score.

Right. Let's get to it then.

Question 1 For the first question, let’s start with the familiar: DNF. Recently, our good friend Scott Miller (CEO/part-owner of Apogee/3D Realms) came out with the following:
We’ve never said that Duke Nukem Forever has ceased development. … Yes, we released the internal team, but that doesn’t correlate to the demise of the project. Does this mean Duke Nukem is immortal? Possibly. But, what matters is that I have acquired four vials of the Duke’s perseverance and will give each of you one so that you may resurrect , or continue, a game series (or singular game) of your choosing. All you have to do is tell me: which game/series, and why?
Question 2 With 2010 settling in, we can be assured of one thing: BioWare are going to make a LOT of money, with the release of both Mass Effect 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both of these games will contain the fabled decisions mechanic that leaves you asking yourself; “Am I a Jesus-like saviour? Or am I a bad-ass Terminator?”. So, perhaps the past has given us choices that are as black and white as a penguin in a black and white photograph, but they’ve still allowed for some marvellous tales to unfold from them. Thus, I ask you; what awesome, or not so awesome, decisions have you been faced with in games? Whether they are in scripted decision sequences or simply deciding whether to go left or right, let’s hear your best.
Question 3 With Gran Turismo 5 taking another delay on the chin (from a March release in Japan to a release date that is TBA), it has become somewhat of an exercise in patience – not least of all for Polyphony’s accountants, with the game coming in at US$60 million at least count. Which begs the question of our Mature Gamer contestants: how much is too much? Is perfection worth any amount, or is there a point at which the checkbooks need to close?
Question 4 With the not really recent but still kind of recent release of Modern Warfare 2, it’s got me thinking. Before it became the standard-bearer of the almighty legion of present-day shooters, Call of Duty was the sharpest tool in the World War II game shed. But, today, World War 2 games are met with complaints about a lack of originality and other similar complaints by every gamer and his (or her) dog. So… possibly jumping ahead a bit but, Gamers Mature, what comes next? Once we get bored of this slaughter of nameless Arabic countries (and Russians), will we be in for a smorgasbord of space shooters? Or are we in for something new altogether? Come, ye gamers, for I would have you prophesise the future of the shooter as you see it.
Question 5 Gaming is public enemy number one in the minds of the media, it seems. Violent video games and games with sexual themes in them are degrading our youth and are just generally bad. How bad? Worse than porn, according to Ron Jeremy:
… violent video games are a much bigger negative influence on kids [than porn] … Uh… OK. So, mature gamers, porn or video games? Which of these two hedonistic pursuits is the worst? Or is there something else that you would rather stick with the title of “ultimate corruptor of our youth”?
Contestants: the deadline for answers is... uh... I think it's three days from now? Sure. Sounds good. Then we're agreed? Yes? Right. Three days it is... that's um... midnight of Saturday? 16/01/10 @ 23:59 UTC, then? Marvellous. I'll see you there. Wear a tie.



DEADLINE: 16/01/10 @ 23:59 UTC.

[Jason]

Question 1 For the first question, let’s start with the familiar: DNF. Recently, our good friend Scott Miller (CEO/part-owner of Apogee/3D Realms) came out with the following: We’ve never said that Duke Nukem Forever has ceased development. … Yes, we released the internal team, but that doesn’t correlate to the demise of the project.
Does this mean Duke Nukem is immortal? Possibly. But, what matters is that I have acquired four vials of the Duke’s perseverance and will give each of you one so that you may resurrect , or continue, a game series (or singular game) of your choosing. All you have to do is tell me: which game/series, and why?

Isn't this the same as question 5 from last week? :p
Anyway, for me it would have to be Carmageddon. The concept was so simple:
1)Drive round in a car
2)Kill anything that moves
3)Have an absolute fucking riot of a time.
But since Carma II, no-one (including the developers, SCI) seems to have realised the potential for a current generation version of this. There have been a couple of cheap imitators, none of which have even warranted full-price releases, but no major game studio seems to have realised how much we like running grannies over for fun.
Apparently they were working on a sequel due sometime in 2005, but it was cancelled, and nothing else has been heard since. A shame, as it's not only a great game with bags of potential for multiplayer anarchy, it's also a personal favourite of mine.

Question 2 With 2010 settling in, we can be assured of one thing: BioWare are going to make a LOT of money, with the release of both Mass Effect 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both of these games will contain the fabled decisions mechanic that leaves you asking yourself; “Am I a Jesus-like saviour? Or am I a bad-ass Terminator?”. So, perhaps the past has given us choices that are as black and white as a penguin in a black and white photograph, but they’ve still allowed for some marvellous tales to unfold from them. Thus, I ask you; what awesome, or not so awesome, decisions have you been faced with in games? Whether they are in scripted decision sequences or simply deciding whether to go left or right, let’s hear your best.

Right, first things first let's make sure the question's right... ;) If you manage to pick up SW:TOR in 2010, you'll be playing it on your own, as according to this post on their official forums, BioWare are targetting a Spring 2011 release.
Anyway, onto the actual question, and I think a very good shout has to go out to the original Mass Effect for the moment when it makes you choose which one of two crew members' lives you save. It was a genuinely gut-wrenching decision, but in the end one of them was much more useful to me than the other, so my decision was more or less straightforward.
Generally I've always had a tendency to be a bit of a goody two-shoes when it comes to good/evil decisions, which often puts me in a difficult position, as I always find the 'evil' party members a lot more entertaining to have in my team, so we end up fighting and bickering the whole way.
Probably the toughest decision I've had was trying to decide whether to save the Little Sisters in Bioshock. Although I tried to do the 'right' thing, there were times when I really needed that Adam, and the Little Sister is right there, and it'd be so easy just to... No, I can't. Can I?

Question 3 With Gran Turismo 5 taking another delay on the chin (from a March release in Japan to a release date that is TBA), it has become somewhat of an exercise in patience – not least of all for Polyphony’s accountants, with the game coming in at US$60 million at least count. Which begs the question of our Mature Gamer contestants: how much is too much? Is perfection worth any amount, or is there a point at which the checkbooks need to close?

It all depends how many they realistically think they're going to sell. Modern Warfare 2 cost somewhere in the region of $50-$60m to throw together (yet they couldn't afford someone to write a coherent, half-interesting plot...), and it's just broken the $1 billion mark. Yes, the outlay was massive, but look at the income. You have to speculate to accumulate.
On the other hand, GT5 have to be a little more careful - whilst the GT series is popular, it hasn't got NEARLY as much hype behind it as MW2 had, and they already had a huge following after the original MW. Not forgetting of course that GT5 isn't going have Xbox or PC sales to boost their numbers either. The simple maths of it is, at $60 for a copy of GT5, they only need to sell 1 million copies of it to make the money back, plus any extra income from DLC down the line. It's a big outlay, but they'll get it back and some.

Question 4 With the not really recent but still kind of recent release of Modern Warfare 2, it’s got me thinking. Before it became the standard-bearer of the almighty legion of present-day shooters, Call of Duty was the sharpest tool in the World War II game shed. But, today, World War 2 games are met with complaints about a lack of originality and other similar complaints by every gamer and his (or her) dog. So… possibly jumping ahead a bit but, Gamers Mature, what comes next? Once we get bored of this slaughter of nameless Arabic countries (and Russians), will we be in for a smorgasbord of space shooters? Or are we in for something new altogether? Come, ye gamers, for I would have you prophesise the future of the shooter as you see it.

As I see it, in a few years the FPS as we know it is dead. Drowned in a sea of 'gritty realism', gamers rebelled and started playing the Myst games to spite the developers. Gamers the world over now spend hours staring at a beautifully-rendered but completely static screen for hours on end, occasionally yelping "WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO?!" before giving up and opening the super-secret envelope included in the box that will help you when you get stuck. Inevitably, the envelope is useless, and the wave of gamer suicides leads many to suspect cult activity is abound.
EA, who several months previously had acquired Myst developer Riven for the price of two copies of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 ($14,000 each) and couple of small Mediterranean islands, now own approximately 47% of the world's GDP, and EA Chief Executive John Riccitiello (http://www.canpages.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dr-evil.jpg) is rumoured to be working on his maniacal laugh.
Seriously though, I think the multiplayer aspect of gaming will really take off, with almost every game routinely offering a full-featured co-operative campaign, where players take the role of various squad members with differing specialities. I wouldn't be surprised to see the scale increase further, too. If MAG can handle 256 players, there's no reason in a couple of years time we shouldn't be looking at 500+ players in a game. Soon we'll be re-enacting entire damn wars online from a first-person perspective.

Question 5 Gaming is public enemy number one in the minds of the media, it seems. Violent video games and games with sexual themes in them are degrading our youth and are just generally [I]bad. How bad? Worse than porn, according to Ron Jeremy:
Uh… OK. So, mature gamers, porn or video games? Which of these two hedonistic pursuits is the worst? Or is there something else that you would rather stick with the title of “ultimate corruptor of our youth”?

To be fair to Ron, he's hardly going to turn round and say 'Porn is by far the worst influence on kids today', as he has a somewhat vested interest in the success of the industry. His comments, whilst ignorant and uninformed, are nothing new to the industry, although it has been funny watching the 'moral majority' squirm when asked if this now means they agree with Ron Jeremy, the posterboy of porn.
However, I have something that is worse than both Porn and Videogames. Porn Videogames.
The list (thankfully) isn't a tremendously long one, but those that are there are woeful.
The most obvious is BMX XXX (http://www.dazereader.com/bmxxxxscreenshot1a.jpg), a game so awe-inspiringly bad, BMX Legend Dave Mirra took legal action to ensure his name wouldn't be anywhere near the product, and is widely regarded to be one of the major reasons Acclaim went bankrupt. It sold just 100,000 copies worldwide.
However, there are weirder and worse porno-games out there, by FAR the weirdest of which is the Playstation Gradius-a-like Cho Aniki. I don't know the exact translation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "completely off my tits on LSD and gayer than a four-dollar bill".
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm down with our sausage-loving brothers, but sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh at something so insanely over the top it transcends stereotypes and prejudice.
Now, it won't surprise you to know that the game is Japanese. Just how Japanese is a different matter. You start the game as a (and read this carefully - you may also wish to swallow any drink you currently have in your mouth) ten-story tall muscular man in a speedo who fires lasers out of his viking helmet (and I use that word with care...).
It doesn't get any less odd from there. Here (http://cdn.gameist.com/static/contentimages/brawler/Cho-aniki-psx-5c.jpg) is one of the early bosses. Did you spot the subtle homoerotic undertones in there?
And finally, I'll leave it to you to try and work out what the shit is going on here (http://cdn.gameist.com/static/contentimages/bensimages/cho-ps15.jpg).

[Knighto]

Answer 1

I had three games in mind; Grim Fandango, Okami and Legacy of Kain series. I quickly dismissed the first two. Why? Well, I believe they’re both a great examples that video games are indeed a true form of art, without the need of going into their artistic details. You see, they’re so fine and perfect on their own merit that making sequels to those games will be like making a sequel to Orwell’s 1984 or painting a Mona Liza 2. It’s just not done, you might be able to base something on a masterpiece (Bioshock was partially based on Ayn Rand and George Orwell books, for example) but you cannot hope to improve it with something such as a “sequel” because it’s perfect as it is and should not be tampered with.

However, Legacy of Kain built a huge universe using all sorts of familiar aspects that are used all the time in our beloved medium (vampires, false gods, time travel.. etc.) Silicon Knights and Crystal Dynamics could’ve just stopped with all the cool elements tossed in there being just another adventure/action title (except for the original Legacy of Kain which was an RPG) where “fun” gameplay is more important than plot and narrative.

I still remember the first Soul Reaver intro movie on PS1, it was perfect and the CG was well ahead of its time.

I’ve got a bad case of cold and I realize I’m not writing very comprehensively so I’ll just sum up my ideas:

1) The script in Soul Reaver, Soul Reaver 2 and Legacy of Kain: Defiance is so well written and voice acted, academically speaking. I even dare say that some parts of the dialogue stand up to the standards of real-life fine theater.
2) The whole story is a huge book of refrences from both the Bible and Lovecraft’s novels with a main theme borrowed from Greek tragedies, that is destiny vs. free will (now tell me that’s not awesome)
3) The main character in three of the games (Raziel) is not your typical badass action hero, he’s more of a manipulated ugly wrath who happens to be in the center of millennia-long plot to fool people that God is real.
4) Having two worlds (real world and souls world) where you move between them “almost” at will still, I think, is one of the most brilliant puzzle solving mechanics in an action/adventure game ever.

What I like the most about Legacy of Kain games is that it respected its adult audience with sophisticated characters, complicated, yet engaging plot and well crafted new universe. It considered its gamers as mature ones not giving any easy answers or cheap Hollywood-ish plot twists. You needed to think and connect the dots between more than three different titles that were released years apart to get the big picture!

Now masterpieces like Grim Fandango only warrant remake to make use of current technology. I also would like to note that Bioshock was a real gem (especially the plot) and making a sequel for it is a very unnecessary cheap move. I hope I’m proven wrong very soon, though.

Answer 2

Let’s face it, no game, so far, has really given us the full freedom of choice or real life moral dilemmas to warrant that feeling of dread you get in real life when you realize that the decision/s you’ve made is/are permanent and you can never go back and change it. In games you can always save at a certain point before that ending-defining moment and then load it and see how the other decisions would’ve panned out. Sometimes you’ll have replay the whole game to find out what effects will take place when you try different decisions. But that’s about it in video games, there’s always a way to take back whatever that’s been done. Unlike real life where we have no load, reset or replay buttons. How many times did you wish you can undo something you’ve already done?

Let me quote Braid (which I only played through the trial version) story script to demonstrate:

"What if our world worked differently? Suppose we could tell her: 'I didn't mean what I just said,' and she would say: 'It's okay, I understand,' and she would not turn away, and life would really proceed as though we had never said that thing? We could remove the damage but still be wiser for the experience."

Ironically, Braid does exactly that, you can just hit the reverse button anytime to undo what ever you did. Brilliant.

Answer 3

Yes, of course. Perfection is worth any amount. :D

Answer 4

To tell you the truth I can’t really think of anything in specific to be the norm in the near, or far, future. Although it’s what you always expect from any media to follow trends, they’re still just trends and I do believe that the medium will mature enough to give us much more diversity soon, just like films.

I agree with Jason on the matter of large multiplayer and co-operative shooters in the near future. I also think it’s very plausible to think that soon more professionalism will be introduced in the west and that the whole world will follow the South Korean model of star-players. It’s just a matter of time before shooters become a mainstream “sport.”

However, we should remember that it’s still a very young medium and we can’t even imagine what kind of technology will be available to games in twenty years time from now. Will it be full body simulation? Mind controlled games? James Cameron’s Avatar like controlled bodies (that’ll probably need more than twenty years, though)? The possibilities are limitless!

Answer 5

Really? Comparing games to porn? Are you kidding me? I will not even dignify that question with an answer. :angry:

But I disagree with funky bear (Jason) on one thing: You’ve got to appreciate porn video games. You see, most games need at least dozens of people and months, if not years, to make and those porn games makers even went the extra mile to put that pornographic content in there. It’s still filth, yeah, but you still got to appreciate the effort (and please don’t argue how much effort those male porn actors have to put for their thigh muscles and how lean and acrobatic those female porn actresses have to be to do whatever they do!)

Edit: MNDF, greatest Aussie ever, please forgive me for not mentioning how magnificent you are, I'm just too tiered and sleepy to kiss up. However I just want to remind you that both the Brits and funky bears hate Australians very much!

[CemeteryGates]

Question 1 For the first question, let’s start with the familiar: DNF. Recently, our good friend Scott Miller (CEO/part-owner of Apogee/3D Realms) came out with the following:
Does this mean Duke Nukem is immortal? Possibly. But, what matters is that I have acquired four vials of the Duke’s perseverance and will give each of you one so that you may resurrect , or continue, a game series (or singular game) of your choosing. All you have to do is tell me: which game/series, and why?



Conker's Bad Fur Day, definitely.
It had no real sequel, only a remake that featured better graphics, censorship, and a completely ruined multiplayer mode.
It's one of my favorite games, too. Easily in my top 5.



Question 2 With 2010 settling in, we can be assured of one thing: BioWare are going to make a LOT of money, with the release of both Mass Effect 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both of these games will contain the fabled decisions mechanic that leaves you asking yourself; “Am I a Jesus-like saviour? Or am I a bad-ass Terminator?”. So, perhaps the past has given us choices that are as black and white as a penguin in a black and white photograph, but they’ve still allowed for some marvellous tales to unfold from them. Thus, I ask you; what awesome, or not so awesome, decisions have you been faced with in games? Whether they are in scripted decision sequences or simply deciding whether to go left or right, let’s hear your best.



Hehehe, I just stumbled upon a part on Call of Duty: World At War where you have to decide whether to take revenge upon a group of three characters the slow (burn them alive with molotovs) or fast (rip them to shreds with a close-range double-barrel shotgun blast/indiscriminate automatic fire) way.
Indigo Prophecy is one of the best games for choices, because while most choices will make you travel the same path, some parts can become quite challenging depending on certain decisions at several points in the game.


Question 3 With Gran Turismo 5 taking another delay on the chin (from a March release in Japan to a release date that is TBA), it has become somewhat of an exercise in patience – not least of all for Polyphony’s accountants, with the game coming in at US$60 million at least count. Which begs the question of our Mature Gamer contestants: how much is too much? Is perfection worth any amount, or is there a point at which the checkbooks need to close?


As a gamer, I'd say that perfection is worth any amount. However, if I owned a developing company, I'd probably care a lot about how much I put into a game. Indeed, it's one thing to have an insane budget for a game that will sell on several consoles and has been hyped since the prequel than it is to be exclusive and not all that hyped. However, I am of the idea that the exclusivity to a console is worth a certain amount, as well.
Either way, I believe $60 million is an amount they could easily win back. The real question is how much they will be able to profit from the final product, which I believe will be a fair amount, as I imagine they must have already gained back a healthy amount of the investment from Gran Turismo 5: Prologue (in the case of the example being set).



Question 4 With the not really recent but still kind of recent release of Modern Warfare 2, it’s got me thinking. Before it became the standard-bearer of the almighty legion of present-day shooters, Call of Duty was the sharpest tool in the World War II game shed. But, today, World War 2 games are met with complaints about a lack of originality and other similar complaints by every gamer and his (or her) dog. So… possibly jumping ahead a bit but, Gamers Mature, what comes next? Once we get bored of this slaughter of nameless Arabic countries (and Russians), will we be in for a smorgasbord of space shooters? Or are we in for something new altogether? Come, ye gamers, for I would have you prophesise the future of the shooter as you see it.


Everything I can think of is out there...
Vietnam isn't as overused as WWII; futuristic settings have seen a lot of use (Halo series, for example); Desert Storm isn't nearly as overused either, but it's seen its fair amount of games.
Only new setting I can think of is the current American invasion of the middle East, but that's been tried recently and boycotted due to silly politics and political correctness.
Perhaps the only fresh option is avant-garde abstract, but abstract never goes mainstream.
Quite frankly, I don't see great innovation in shooters arriving any time soon.




Question 5 Gaming is public enemy number one in the minds of the media, it seems. Violent video games and games with sexual themes in them are degrading our youth and are just generally bad. How bad? Worse than porn, according to Ron Jeremy:
Uh… OK. So, mature gamers, porn or video games? Which of these two hedonistic pursuits is the worst? Or is there something else that you would rather stick with the title of “ultimate corruptor of our youth”?



Video-games aren't a real social issue in my country... a cultural difference from the anglo-parlant world, I guess.
A much tougher antagonist could be globalization. Replacement of culture by untrascendental mass franchises, and an overall shift in generalized mentality towards one taken from popular TV shows... a change in values, ambitions and mannerisms altogether. That's much more dangerous.
I was just thinking about it the other day... what if a Cold War based game had you as a Russian shooting Americans, for a change?
That'd be awesome, but sadly, absolutely unthinkable.

But really, there isn't really a society-based threat to corrupt the youth (unless you philosophize and go to the root; the political relations with economy in this country) that is readily available for the media to point their fingers at someone/something and blame it for our decadence.


Also, putting the two against each other, as the question appears to do, I believe one could objectively say porn is a far bigger menace. For one, it's infinitely easier to get (you need at least some $200 USD to buy a console, then you have to buy the violent games; but you need only type a word in google to find porn); it could also be argued easily that porn has infinitely more examples that directly relate to reality of a negative change in a person's integral development or otherwise personality (such as the objectification of women or a tendency towards hedonist views; for infallible proof try bringing up the subject with a group of radical feminists while taking a por-porn side and watch shit stir quicker and more intensely than a hornets' nest [where a direct influence to violence by video-games has not been legally proved by sociologial/psychological studies once, only wildly speculated by sensationalist reporters, as far as I know]).

Jason: "Aniki" is a Japanese word meaning "[big/elder] brother" or otherwise referring to a member of higher status within a heirarchic structure. I do believe it is a term most widely used by the Yakuza, also known as the Japanese mafia.




As a curious fact, I wrote this post (except for the first answer) while considerably intoxicated.

[Betty]

So, I was lost in Narnia. Sorry im late.

Question 1 For the first question, let’s start with the familiar: DNF. Recently, our good friend Scott Miller (CEO/part-owner of Apogee/3D Realms) came out with the following:
Does this mean Duke Nukem is immortal? Possibly. But, what matters is that I have acquired four vials of the Duke’s perseverance and will give each of you one so that you may resurrect , or continue, a game series (or singular game) of your choosing. All you have to do is tell me: which game/series, and why?

Fallout. That is, Bethesda softworks Fallout. First off, I dont think ive EVER played an RPG, since Zelda OOT, that I legit fell in love with. Its super detailed (almost to the point of frustration. I have to explore EVERYTHING.) Aside from the occasional glitch, I think Fallout 3 is so friggin awesome.
But thank JESUS for New Vegas. a fallout MMO. ... I can sense some "WoW-No Lifers" coming from it... *shudder*...

Question 2 With 2010 settling in, we can be assured of one thing: BioWare are going to make a LOT of money, with the release of both Mass Effect 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. Both of these games will contain the fabled decisions mechanic that leaves you asking yourself; “Am I a Jesus-like saviour? Or am I a bad-ass Terminator?”. So, perhaps the past has given us choices that are as black and white as a penguin in a black and white photograph, but they’ve still allowed for some marvellous tales to unfold from them. Thus, I ask you; what awesome, or not so awesome, decisions have you been faced with in games? Whether they are in scripted decision sequences or simply deciding whether to go left or right, let’s hear your best.

Havent gotten to it yet- but that point in MW2 where you have to kill civilians. Im pretty sure I checked off that I would play through it. But my female, mother like, instinct is going to make me want to stop and make sure everyone is ok :) and then continue on.
Call me a pansy, but its that pansy like instinct that will make me turn around and stab a knife in your back or shoot you in the face if I see you misbehaving & or teamkilling.

Question 3 With Gran Turismo 5 taking another delay on the chin (from a March release in Japan to a release date that is TBA), it has become somewhat of an exercise in patience – not least of all for Polyphony’s accountants, with the game coming in at US$60 million at least count. Which begs the question of our Mature Gamer contestants: how much is too much? Is perfection worth any amount, or is there a point at which the checkbooks need to close?

I do get extremely pissed when I come across one of those uber glitches or exploits that should have been caught right away or through play testing. (Boosting in MW2, anyone?)
I could care less about the money though as long as the game is actually GOOD. If its sub-par, then good god thats a waste of money.

Question 4 With the not really recent but still kind of recent release of Modern Warfare 2, it’s got me thinking. Before it became the standard-bearer of the almighty legion of present-day shooters, Call of Duty was the sharpest tool in the World War II game shed. But, today, World War 2 games are met with complaints about a lack of originality and other similar complaints by every gamer and his (or her) dog. So… possibly jumping ahead a bit but, Gamers Mature, what comes next? Once we get bored of this slaughter of nameless Arabic countries (and Russians), will we be in for a smorgasbord of space shooters? Or are we in for something new altogether? Come, ye gamers, for I would have you prophesise the future of the shooter as you see it.

So the new MW is apparently going to be set in the future.

Wtf.
space shooters....
Halo, anyone?

Its been done. I dont think theres anything more that CAN be done for shooters. Unless theres some epic, and I mean epic, civil war shooter that comes out of the woodwork. Point is, people are so accustomed to either the modern shooter (COD, vegas) or ... Friggin halo. and GOW. whatever that counts as...

Question 5 Gaming is public enemy number one in the minds of the media, it seems. Violent video games and games with sexual themes in them are degrading our youth and are just generally bad. How bad? Worse than porn, according to Ron Jeremy:
Uh… OK. So, mature gamers, porn or video games? Which of these two hedonistic pursuits is the worst? Or is there something else that you would rather stick with the title of “ultimate corruptor of our youth”?


Corruptor of our youth?...


...Fucking Miley Cyrus.

'Nuff said.

[MyNameDidntFit]

Well, mates, time's come for me to put... [fucking hell, my screen is moving... those damn games have screwed with my mind... shouldn't have played them for so long....] ... some red an' green bits of scribble through your shi-... uh, answers... so, let's do it.

Question 1:
Does this mean Duke Nukem is immortal? Possibly. But, what matters is that I have acquired four vials of the Duke’s perseverance and will give each of you one so that you may resurrect , or continue, a game series (or singular game) of your choosing. All you have to do is tell me: which game/series, and why?
Isn't this the same as question 5 from last week? :p -5: No. Learn to read you dirty ingrate.
Anyway, for me it would have to be Carmageddon +1: top game, that. The concept was so simple:
1)Drive round in a car
2)Kill anything that moves
3)Have an absolute fucking riot of a time.
+3: lists are good.
But since Carma II, no-one (including the developers, SCI) seems to have realised the potential for a current generation version of this. There have been a couple of cheap imitators, none of which have even warranted full-price releases, but no major game studio seems to have realised how much we like running grannies over for fun. +1: this is true, however, many flash game imitations have come close...
Apparently they were working on a sequel due sometime in 2005, but it was cancelled, and nothing else has been heard since. A shame, as it's not only a great game with bags of potential for multiplayer anarchy +1: chaotic MP is something truly brilliant when imagined in a game like Carma, it's also a personal favourite of mine.

I had three games in mind; Grim Fandango, Okami and Legacy of Kain series. I quickly dismissed the first two. Why? Well, I believe they’re both a great examples that video games are indeed a true form of art, without the need of going into their artistic details. You see, they’re so fine and perfect on their own merit that making sequels to those games will be like making a sequel to Orwell’s 1984 or painting a Mona Liza 2 -1: I never liked the Mona Lisa... but then... +1 for spelling it wrong It’s just not done, you might be able to base something on a masterpiece (Bioshock was partially based on Ayn Rand and George Orwell books, for example) but you cannot hope to improve it with something such as a “sequel” because it’s perfect as it is and should not be tampered with.

However, Legacy of Kain built a huge universe using all sorts of familiar aspects that are used all the time in our beloved medium (vampires, false gods, time travel.. etc.) Silicon Knights and Crystal Dynamics could’ve just stopped with all the cool elements tossed in there being just another adventure/action title (except for the original Legacy of Kain which was an RPG) where “fun” gameplay is more important than plot and narrative.

I still remember the first Soul Reaver intro movie on PS1, it was perfect and the CG was well ahead of its time.

I’ve got a bad case of cold and I realize I’m not writing very comprehensively -1: no, no you are not. It's painful so I’ll just sum up my ideas:

1) The script in Soul Reaver, Soul Reaver 2 and Legacy of Kain: Defiance is so well written and voice acted, academically speaking. I even dare say that some parts of the dialogue stand up to the standards of real-life fine theater.
2) The whole story is a huge book of refrences from both the Bible and Lovecraft’s novels with a main theme borrowed from Greek tragedies, that is destiny vs. free will (now tell me that’s not awesome) +1: it's been done many times, just never very well. I still like it as a theme, though.
3) The main character in three of the games (Raziel) is not your typical badass action hero, he’s more of a manipulated ugly wrath who happens to be in the center of millennia-long plot to fool people that God is real. +1: sounds like Kratos. This is good.
4) Having two worlds (real world and souls world) where you move between them “almost” at will still, I think, is one of the most brilliant puzzle solving mechanics in an action/adventure game ever.

What I like the most about Legacy of Kain games is that it respected its adult audience with sophisticated characters, complicated, yet engaging plot and well crafted new universe +3: as good reasons to continue something as any, I'd say. It considered its gamers as mature ones not giving any easy answers or cheap Hollywood-ish plot twists. You needed to think and connect the dots between more than three different titles that were released years apart to get the big picture!

Now masterpieces like Grim Fandango only warrant remake to make use of current technology -2: ugh. Word-for-word remakes: NO. I also would like to note that Bioshock was a real gem (especially the plot) and making a sequel for it is a very unnecessary cheap move. I hope I’m proven wrong very soon, though.

Conker's Bad Fur Day +3: <3 Conker, definitely.
It had no real sequel, only a remake that featured better graphics, censorship, and a completely ruined multiplayer mode. +2: concurred entirely
It's one of my favorite games, too. Easily in my top 5.

So, I was lost in Narnia -1: and you didn't bring me a sandwich? GTFO Narnia. Sorry im late.


Fallout. +1: much love for FO. That is, Bethesda softworks Fallout. -1: and here I was thinking you had started so well... First off, I dont think ive EVER played an RPG, since Zelda OOT +1: back on track, that I legit fell in love with. Its super detailed (almost to the point of frustration. I have to explore EVERYTHING.) Aside from the occasional glitch, I think Fallout 3 is so friggin awesome.
But thank JESUS for New Vegas. a fallout MMO. ... I can sense some "WoW-No Lifers" coming from it... *shudder*...

After Question 1:
Jason: 1
Knighto: 2
CG: 5
Betty: 1
Pathetic.


Question 2:
Thus, I ask you; what awesome, or not so awesome, decisions have you been faced with in games? Whether they are in scripted decision sequences or simply deciding whether to go left or right, let’s hear your best.
Right, first things first let's make sure the question's right... ;) If you manage to pick up SW:TOR in 2010, you'll be playing it on your own, as according to this (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109426) post on their official forums, BioWare are targetting a Spring 2011 release. +3: you have balls. I like balls.
Anyway, onto the actual question, and I think a very good shout has to go out to the original Mass Effect for the moment when it makes you choose which one of two crew members' lives you save. It was a genuinely gut-wrenching decision, +1: indeed, a very well-crafted moment but in the end one of them was much more useful to me than the other, so my decision was more or less straightforward.
Generally I've always had a tendency to be a bit of a goody two-shoes when it comes to good/evil decisions, which often puts me in a difficult position, as I always find the 'evil' party members a lot more entertaining to have in my team, so we end up fighting and bickering the whole way. -1: pansy. But then, what'd I expect? You're British.
Probably the toughest decision I've had was trying to decide whether to save the Little Sisters in Bioshock. Although I tried to do the 'right' thing, there were times when I really needed that Adam, and the Little Sister is right there, and it'd be so easy just to... No, I can't. Can I?

Let’s face it, no game, so far, has really given us the full freedom of choice or real life moral dilemmas to warrant that feeling of dread you get in real life when you realize that the decision/s you’ve made is/are permanent and you can never go back and change it -2: untrue. Fallout games were brilliant at doing this because, little did you know, that person you just killed -- who was just like the other 30 you had just killed -- was actually an essential part of something later on... well, bugger. In games you can always save at a certain point before that ending-defining moment and then load it and see how the other decisions would’ve panned out. Sometimes you’ll have replay the whole game to find out what effects will take place when you try different decisions. But that’s about it in video games, there’s always a way to take back whatever that’s been done. Unlike real life where we have no load, reset or replay buttons. How many times did you wish you can undo something you’ve already done? +1: a lot. More often than not my first thought is along the lines of "where's my F6 key?" [F6 = quickload in Half-Life]

Let me quote Braid (which I only played through the trial version +1: going out on a limb; good) story script to demonstrate:

"What if our world worked differently? Suppose we could tell her: 'I didn't mean what I just said,' and she would say: 'It's okay, I understand,' and she would not turn away, and life would really proceed as though we had never said that thing? We could remove the damage but still be wiser for the experience."

Ironically, Braid does exactly that, you can just hit the reverse button anytime to undo what ever you did. Brilliant. +1: brilliant, yes, but Sands of Time did it well before Braid, so only 1 point for an otherwise 2 or 3 point statement.

Hehehe, I just stumbled upon a part on Call of Duty: World At War where you have to decide whether to take revenge upon a group of three characters the slow (burn them alive with molotovs) or fast (rip them to shreds with a close-range double-barrel shotgun blast/indiscriminate automatic fire) way. +1: brutality or brutality?
Indigo Prophecy is one of the best games for choices, because while most choices will make you travel the same path, some parts can become quite challenging depending on certain decisions at several points in the game +1: while I haven't played the game, I like the idea of challenging decisions that don't have gimmicky effects on the plot.

Havent gotten to it yet- but that point in MW2 where you have to kill civilians +2: happy memories. Im pretty sure I checked off that I would play through it. But my female, mother like, instinct is going to make me want to stop and make sure everyone is ok :) and then continue on -2: silly woman! You should be throwing grenades, not Band-Aids! No wonder Makarov... eh, wait, that'd be a spoiler.
Call me a pansy -1: pansy, but its that pansy like instinct that will make me turn around and stab a knife in your back or shoot you in the face if I see you misbehaving & or teamkilling. +2: you'll make a fine mother one day... for the three days that your children survive... :/

After Question 2:
Jason: 5
Knighto: 3
CG: 7
Betty: 2
You lot would be dead in two minutes down under.

Question 3:
Which begs the question of our Mature Gamer contestants: how much is too much? Is perfection worth any amount, or is there a point at which the checkbooks need to close?


It all depends how many they realistically think they're going to sell. Modern Warfare 2 cost somewhere in the region of $50-$60m to throw together (yet they couldn't afford someone to write a coherent, half-interesting plot... -1: it was coherent. Maybe not compelling, but coherent nonetheless), and it's just broken the $1 billion mark. Yes, the outlay was massive, but look at the income. You have to speculate to accumulate. +2: well put
On the other hand, GT5 have to be a little more careful - whilst the GT series is popular, it hasn't got NEARLY as much hype behind it as MW2 had, and they already had a huge following after the original MW. Not forgetting of course that GT5 isn't going have Xbox or PC sales to boost their numbers either. The simple maths of it is, at $60 for a copy of GT5, they only need to sell 1 million copies of it to make the money back, plus any extra income from DLC down the line. It's a big outlay, but they'll get it back and some +1.

Yes, of course. Perfection is worth any amount. :D
+2: succinct, to say the least

As a gamer, I'd say that perfection is worth any amount. However, if I owned a developing company, I'd probably care a lot about how much I put into a game. +1: you're honest, at least Indeed, it's one thing to have an insane budget for a game that will sell on several consoles and has been hyped since the prequel than it is to be exclusive and not all that hyped. However, I am of the idea that the exclusivity to a console is worth a certain amount, as well. +1: exclusivity can indeed work in a game's favour
Either way, I believe $60 million is an amount they could easily win back. The real question is how much they will be able to profit from the final product, which I believe will be a fair amount, as I imagine they must have already gained back a healthy amount of the investment from Gran Turismo 5: Prologue -1: Jason beat you to that one, shameful, really (in the case of the example being set).

I do get extremely pissed when I come across one of those uber glitches or exploits that should have been caught right away or through play testing +2: something we can all agree on, I think. (Boosting in MW2, anyone?)
I could care less about the money though as long as the game is actually GOOD. If its sub-par, then good god thats a waste of money. +1: blunt, but well put

After Question 3:
Jason: 6
Knighto: 5
CG: 8
Betty: 5
Getting better.

Question 4:
Come, ye gamers, for I would have you prophesise the future of the shooter as you see it.
As I see it, in a few years the FPS as we know it is dead. Drowned in a sea of 'gritty realism', gamers rebelled and started playing the Myst games to spite the developers. Gamers the world over now spend hours staring at a beautifully-rendered but completely static screen for hours on end, occasionally yelping "WHAT THE FUCK DO I DO?!" before giving up and opening the super-secret envelope included in the box that will help you when you get stuck. Inevitably, the envelope is useless, and the wave of gamer suicides leads many to suspect cult activity is abound. +3: exaggerated truths are fun. You should be a climate scientist.
EA, who several months previously had acquired Myst developer Riven for the price of two copies of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 ($14,000 each) and couple of small Mediterranean islands +1: a bargain!, now own approximately 47% of the world's GDP, and EA Chief Executive John Riccitiello (http://www.canpages.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dr-evil.jpg) is rumoured to be working on his maniacal laugh.
Seriously though, I think the multiplayer aspect of gaming will really take off, with almost every game routinely offering a full-featured co-operative campaign, where players take the role of various squad members with differing specialities +1: co-operative really does look like the future. I wouldn't be surprised to see the scale increase further, too. If MAG can handle 256 players, there's no reason in a couple of years time we shouldn't be looking at 500+ players in a game. Soon we'll be re-enacting entire damn wars online from a first-person perspective +2: good God YES

-1: because you can't have all green.

To tell you the truth I can’t really think of anything in specific to be the norm in the near, or far, future. Although it’s what you always expect from any media to follow trends, they’re still just trends and I do believe that the medium will mature enough to give us much more diversity soon, just like films.

I agree with Jason -1 on the matter of large multiplayer and co-operative shooters in the near future. I also think it’s very plausible to think that soon more professionalism will be introduced in the west and that the whole world will follow the South Korean model of star-players. It’s just a matter of time before shooters become a mainstream “sport.” +2: oh, how we will lose many a good social life to such a sport...

However, we should remember that it’s still a very young medium and we can’t even imagine what kind of technology will be available to games in twenty years time from now. Will it be full body simulation? Mind controlled games? James Cameron’s Avatar like controlled bodies (that’ll probably need more than twenty years, though)? The possibilities are limitless! +1: with the advancement happening currently, they are indeed

Everything I can think of is out there...
Vietnam +1: Vietnam games, when done well, are quite good isn't as overused as WWII; futuristic settings have seen a lot of use (Halo series, for example); Desert Storm isn't nearly as overused either, but it's seen its fair amount of games.
Only new setting I can think of is the current American invasion of the middle East, but that's been tried recently and boycotted due to silly politics and political correctness. -2: the current invasion is essentially taking Modern Warfare and calling the country Afghanistan.
Perhaps the only fresh option is avant-garde abstract, but abstract never goes mainstream +1: I would, however, like to see more abstract concepts nudging into the light
Quite frankly, I don't see great innovation in shooters arriving any time soon.

So the new MW is apparently going to be set in the future. -1: Modern Warfare in the future? Silly American

Wtf.
space shooters....
Halo, anyone?

Its been done. I dont think theres anything more that CAN be done for shooters. Unless theres some epic, and I mean epic, civil war shooter that comes out of the woodwork +2: I'd love this, but I don't think the pacing would be very good.... Point is, people are so accustomed to either the modern shooter (COD, vegas) or ... Friggin halo. and GOW. whatever that counts as...

After Question 4:
Jason: 12
Knighto: 7
CG: 8
Betty: 7
Nicely done, Jassie.


Question 5:
Come, ye gamers, for I would have you prophesise the future of the shooter as you see it.
To be fair to Ron, he's hardly going to turn round and say 'Porn is by far the worst influence on kids today', as he has a somewhat vested interest in the success of the industry -1: no need to defend the man. His comments, whilst ignorant and uninformed, are nothing new to the industry, although it has been funny watching the 'moral majority' squirm when asked if this now means they agree with Ron Jeremy, the posterboy of porn. +1: hehehehehehe
However, I have something that is worse than both Porn and Videogames. Porn Videogames. -1: sex in video games can be good, take God of War for example...
The list (thankfully) isn't a tremendously long one, but those that are there are woeful.
The most obvious is BMX XXX (http://www.dazereader.com/bmxxxxscreenshot1a.jpg), a game so awe-inspiringly bad, BMX Legend Dave Mirra took legal action to ensure his name wouldn't be anywhere near the product, and is widely regarded to be one of the major reasons Acclaim went bankrupt. It sold just 100,000 copies worldwide.
However, there are weirder and worse porno-games out there, by FAR the weirdest of which is the Playstation Gradius-a-like Cho Aniki -5: wtf are you doing knowing about that? I don't know the exact translation, but I'm assuming it's something along the lines of "completely off my tits on LSD and gayer than a four-dollar bill".
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm down with our sausage-loving brothers, but sometimes you just have to sit back and laugh at something so insanely over the top it transcends stereotypes and prejudice.
Now, it won't surprise you to know that the game is Japanese. Just how Japanese is a different matter. You start the game as a (and read this carefully - you may also wish to swallow any drink you currently have in your mouth) ten-story tall muscular man in a speedo who fires lasers out of his viking helmet (and I use that word with care...).
It doesn't get any less odd from there. Here (http://cdn.gameist.com/static/contentimages/brawler/Cho-aniki-psx-5c.jpg) is one of the early bosses. Did you spot the subtle homoerotic undertones in there?
And finally, I'll leave it to you to try and work out what the shit is going on here (http://cdn.gameist.com/static/contentimages/bensimages/cho-ps15.jpg).

+2 because I was rofl'ing.

Really? Comparing games to porn? Are you kidding me? I will not even dignify that question with an answer. :angry: -1: that's kind of the point of this whole shindig...

But I disagree with funky bear (Jason) +2 on one thing: You’ve got to appreciate porn video games. You see, most games need at least dozens of people and months, if not years, to make and those porn games makers even went the extra mile to put that pornographic content in there. It’s still filth, yeah, but you still got to appreciate the effort (and please don’t argue how much effort those male porn actors have to put for their thigh muscles and how lean and acrobatic those female porn actresses have to be to do whatever they do! +2: happy memories)

Video-games aren't a real social issue in my country... +1: yay a cultural difference from the anglo-parlant world, I guess.
A much tougher antagonist could be globalization. Replacement of culture by untrascendental mass franchises, and an overall shift in generalized mentality towards one taken from popular TV shows... a change in values, ambitions and mannerisms altogether. That's much more dangerous.
I was just thinking about it the other day... what if a Cold War based game had you as a Russian shooting Americans, for a change?
That'd be awesome, but sadly, absolutely unthinkable. +1: because you'd be on the losing side... no-one likes that.

But really, there isn't really a society-based threat to corrupt the youth (unless you philosophize and go to the root; the political relations with economy in this country) that is readily available for the media to point their fingers at someone/something and blame it for our decadence.


Also, putting the two against each other, as the question appears to do, I believe one could objectively say porn is a far bigger menace. For one, it's infinitely easier to get (you need at least some $200 USD to buy a console, then you have to buy the violent games; but you need only type a word in google to find porn) +1: Google, friend of the morally impaired; it could also be argued easily that porn has infinitely more examples that directly relate to reality of a negative change in a person's integral development or otherwise personality (such as the objectification of women or a tendency towards hedonist views; for infallible proof try bringing up the subject with a group of radical feminists while taking a por-porn side and watch shit stir quicker and more intensely than a hornets' nest -2: feminists as evidence for objectivity? What're you thinking?! [where a direct influence to violence by video-games has not been legally proved by sociologial/psychological studies once, only wildly speculated by sensationalist reporters, as far as I know]).

Jason: "Aniki" is a Japanese word meaning " brother" or otherwise referring to a member of higher status within a heirarchic structure. I do believe it is a term most widely used by the Yakuza, also known as the Japanese mafia.

Corruptor of our youth?...


...Fucking Miley Cyrus. +5: 'nuff said indeed

'Nuff said.

With a few minor post-game adjustments to be made as follows:

Knighto, CG & Betty: -2 for not taking the opportunity to attack the contestants who had posted before you.

Knighto: -2 because I don't appreciate lip-marks on my boots.


[B]FINAL SCORES:
:1st: Betty: 10
:2nd: Jason: 8
:3rd: CG: 7
:upset: Knighto: 6

Coming in from equal last place to take the lead, Betty has managed to batter of the men of the competition, no matter their nationality, creed or race, to claim the grand prize of a limited edition... NOTHING!

Bad luck to the rest of you, and remember, I told you I'd mark you down if there wasn't blood!