Sony considering 'charging' for Premium version of PSN in 2010...

[Jason]

...now, before the PS3 owners light their torches and fetch their pitchforks (and the Xbox owners start pointing and laughing), I should clarify:

Sony are rumoured to be planning a 'new revenue stream from subscription' on PSN in 2010, according to slides from a speech on Thursday. HOWEVER, SCE Chief Executive Kaz Hirai has moved to make one thing very clear - this would be in addition to already available features on PSN.
So whilst PS3 owners will still be able to play online for free and US users will still be able to stream from Netflix (both require the $50/year Gold LIVE membership on X360), there will be additional 'premium' features available to subscribers.
No details were made clear about what the premium features are likely to be, but knowing Sony, you can expect some kind of big-money tie in somewhere along the line.

[Landy]

I guess they are seeing there is money to be made from charging people for their online services.

[Jason]

I don't think it's a bad thing, as long as two things happen:
A) the basic online experience remains free (which they've said it will, so can't argue with that right now),
B) users who do pay for the premium service get something worth having.

Anyway, Sony aren't doing bad financially at the moment, they just announced a fairly hefty profit on the back of the PS3, I believe.

[Landy]

How does the MP aspect of PSN work? Is it P2P, or hosted on dedicated servers?

[Jason]

It varies from game to game, but I think most games work on a peer to peer basis, and it works pretty well. Occasionally on the more popular games such as Call of Duty you'll find a laggy host, but for the most part, lag is pretty unusual, and I'm only running a 1.5MB connection.

[Landy]

See, there is where MW2 for PC went so wrong. :(
All i hear about the game is that it lags, due to the hosts, and the lack of friends being able to join your game.

[Jason]

Yeah, the PS3 version was pretty badly broken at first too, but they unleashed about 4 patches in a week, and it seems to be working now.
The PC version doesn't seem to be getting the same support... although in all honesty, PC players aren't missing much. Call of Duty is a good console FPS, but it's nowhere near the level of PC FPS games.

[Recaner]

I was about light a torch when I saw the thread title.

As long as the basic online services are still free, that should be fine.

Really curious on knowing what the premium services will be.

[nilihanth]

I was about light a torch when I saw the thread title.

As long as the basic online services are still free, that should be fine.

Really curious on knowing what the premium services will be.

As am I. It's hard to imagine what it would be seeing as there are so many features already that are supposed to remain free, according to the OP. Maybe the much-talked-about cross-game-chat will be made available to the premium. I doubt it though since they already said that was supposedly in the next system update, 3.15 or something (I could be way off). It could even be a cross-game party system similar to the 360's but I'm having a hard time seeing that too since the core system doesn't have it, therefore forcing developers to incorporate their own party system in each game. Besides that would leave out the non-premium players. Hmmm, maybe that's the intent. It works for Microsoft I guess.

[Jason]

I have to say, the communications and social side of things is the PSN's major failing. It's just so clunky and unintuitive. I've never used Xbox Live, so I can't draw comparisons, but I imagine it has to be much easier and user-friendly than the PS3's system.

Fortunately, I'm not one for making friends in-game all that much, and as very few of my offline (and online come to think of it) friends have a PS3, I don't have an awful lot of need for one, but I can see why others would.

[MyNameDidntFit]

Despite our distance, we should attempt to get something going at some stage, Jassie, I've still not actually gotten around to going online with my PS3 and need an excuse :p

[nilihanth]

Despite our distance, we should attempt to get something going at some stage, Jassie, I've still not actually gotten around to going online with my PS3 and need an excuse :p
If you PAL folk ever jump online and want to try Home out I can jump in with my EU account I made to meet y'all. For a long time the Japanese and European Home spaces were superior to the NA versions. It's caught up for the most part now, although the Japanese central space is still far far different than the others.

Honestly there's not much to do in Home other than socialize with people you already know but you can really just do that using a microphone or the PS Eye using the built-in XMB chatting feature.

[Rob]

I don't think it's a bad thing, as long as two things happen:
A) the basic online experience remains free (which they've said it will, so can't argue with that right now),
B) users who do pay for the premium service get something worth having.

Anyway, Sony aren't doing bad financially at the moment, they just announced a fairly hefty profit on the back of the PS3, I believe.

I'd pay if those two things happened.

I was under the impression that the PS3 was costing Sony money at least before the hardware revision. It might be turning a small profit now but the last couple years probably put a huge dent in their wallet. I'm not factoring in any PSN or peripheral profits.

[Jason]

Despite our distance, we should attempt to get something going at some stage, Jassie, I've still not actually gotten around to going online with my PS3 and need an excuse :p

Agreed - there's a few games that'd be a good laugh with mates, and it'd be interesting to compare the ping times on PS3 and Steam.

I was under the impression that the PS3 was costing Sony money at least before the hardware revision. It might be turning a small profit now but the last couple years probably put a huge dent in their wallet. I'm not factoring in any PSN or peripheral profits.

Interesting you should say that... I was only reading an article yesterday about this - apparently the PS3 Slim is still selling at a $36 per unit loss.
However, when you factor in that the older, bulkier PS3 was losing about $220 per unit, that's not too bad. Plus material costs are only going to come down. Who knows, one day the PS3 may turn a profit per unit!

[nilihanth]

I doubt the PS3 will ever really turn any profit (worth mentioning) per unit sold. That's not what Sony is after. Obviously cutting the loss per unit was a good move but they, like Microsoft, rely on game sales, peripherals, PSN purchases, and now the mentioned premium online fee for a steady revenue.

[Jason]

Agreed. I do think that by the middle of 2010 they'll be roughly breaking even on console sales, but I agree there's not going to be any real money made by selling units.

To go out on a limb - technologically at least, the PS3 is the market leader. I don't think too many people could argue that for sheer graphical and processor grunt, the PS3 outperforms its rivals. However, Microsoft have a bigger share of the market due to six months unopposed at the start of the current generation, plus a much cheaper (almost half the price) price per unit.
I think that whilst the Xbox is still out in front in the current generation, the PS3 is gathering speed, and it's at the end of the generation when the machines are streched to their limits that it's really going to tell, because the PS3 -on paper at least- can be pushed that bit further, and I think that's what Sony have gambled on.

[vlbarto10]

I am only on xbl and the cross game party system is part of the reason I stay there. I enjoy the socializing part. I often get into a party of friends and we can all be playing different games and chatting in between. Since Microsoft is so profits minded we often pick up different games via rental and try them out and discuss while playing to decide what is worth the money.

I looked hard at the PS3 but have not made the jump because I do enjoy the feature. If they start to offer the same it may get more of the 360 fan base to move or dare I say invest in both. Price point, number of games, cross game party system and friends already on xbl made the difference for me. I keep looking at the PS3.... absolutely gathering speed

[Jason]

I totally agree that you should stick with what your friends have - those friends I do have who are gamers are on the 360, so I'm thinking about digging my semi-broken (disc drive and possible RROD issues) 360 Arcade out of the cupboard and taking it to a repair place to get it priced up just so I can play with some familiar faces.

[Rob]

My impressions of the PS3 would be different if enough of my friends had one. Almost everyone I know went with a xbox360 because of the low entry price.

You can't currently beat the ease of the xbox360 online experience. I like my ps3 but why Sony... why did you not include a mic!

[Jason]

In fairness to Sony, the PS3 has bluetooth support, so if you have any kind of bluetooth headset (most cellphones come with one these days), you can use that with the PS3 to fairly good effect.

[nilihanth]

Indeed. The PS3 supports 3rd party peripherals unlike the 360. You can use almost any wireless keyboard and mouse, any bluetooth headset that works with a cell phone (I use a simple Samsung bluetooth headset for mine), almost any USB headset as well. Yeah, they didn't ship a PS3-only headset but they've opened the doors for so many more.

It's amazing to see the difference of openness between the two systems. Unfortunately Sony was stubborn to begin with and made a couple bad decisions that cost them a good many potential buyers. People will play what their friends play for the most part, even if the system their friends play lacks certain features. The 360 got it right in the social aspect. Sony hasn't quite yet.

Most of my friends actually have PS3s and not 360's. I would have bought a PS3 regardless because I couldn't overlook the astoundingly awful peripheral pricing of the 360 and the pay-to-play online dealy. I do wish the social aspect of the system were more like unto the 360's but that will come in time, as has been stated.

[Jason]

I have to say, the peripheral pricing of the PS3 gear is no better (about £20 for the remote control, and a truly obscene £35 for a new dualshock pad...), but the main difference is that you need so few - as nilihanth pointed out, you can use almost any old third party gear. I have the wireless keyboard from my old desktop PC (RIP) plugged into it to speed up the process of sending messages, and it worked first time with no drivers or anything.

As has been stated several times though, the social aspect of the PSN has got to improve. It's shoddy at best at the moment.

[Rob]

The average person buying a PS3 is not going to want to buy/borrow and hook up accessories that were not included in the base system. That sucks when i'm sitting here with a bluetooth headset and a keyboard having no sane way to receive communication from my friend who has his controller and an on screen keyboard. It frustrates me that such a powerful console left out the most important feature. I want to use my PS3 as my main console but... meh... fail.

It hurts to say it... I like my PS3.

[nilihanth]

I have to say, the peripheral pricing of the PS3 gear is no better (about £20 for the remote control, and a truly obscene £35 for a new dualshock pad...), but the main difference is that you need so few - as nilihanth pointed out
I should have been clearer. I meant the kind of peripherals that M$ charges you for that come standard on every PS3 sold--Wireless and a hard drive. Another thing that pure Xbox fans may not know is that, not only does every PS3 have a hard drive of varying size, Sony supports and instructs users how to replace said hard drive with any laptop-size hard drive of your choosing, of any size. I have a 160GB in mine right now. ANY standard laptop hard drive!! It's mind-blowing!

So, yes, the PS3 doesn't come with a mic but at least it comes standard with a wireless controller, 802.11g WLAN and a hard drive.

Yes, I'm partial but, in the end I believe the PS3 is the superior machine overall. Microsoft took a gamble and released their next-gen system 1/2 a year early. That was a wise choice and it has paid off greatly but comparing the two feature lists side by side is leaning toward the PS3.

Boy have I gotten off-topic. I guess I can say that, if Sony's premium services are the same or better than what M$ has, look out, 360!

[Jason]

It's interesting - if the next-gen consoles were all to launch tomorrow, I'd have to say that the Xbox 360 won the current generation - they increased their market share from a medium-sized stake (but way, WAY behind the PS2) with the original Xbox to the point where they have what I'm assuming is a fairly healthy lead in the market at the moment.
However, as has been pointed out, they fired early and reaped the rewards, and that means that towards the end of the current generation, they're going to be caught up and surpassed by the PS3.

Unless, of course, they do the same with the next generation too, and gain another drop on Sony. However, I can't see Sony making the same mistake again and giving their main rival six months of unopposed business.

[nilihanth]

http://kotaku.com/5429592/survey-sony-considering-premium-playstation-network-subscriptions

Interesting bit of information regarding the potential feature list. Remember, the article states that the features are being considered and nothing is concrete yet. Still, interesting.

[Jason]

That's some interesting reading. I don't like the three different options all costing $70 and with different features missing and present - if you're going to do something like a premium service, make it consistent so that everyone pays the same price and gets the same features.

The 'tokens' thing certainly sounds interesting, and could lead to a whole new level of competitive gameplay, be that for better or worse, and the idea of having access to full versions of games for an hour is an interesting one, too. I don't like the idea of forcing people to pay for the cross-game party chat though. If they give it away for free, they've taken away one of the Xbox's major plus points and made it available for nothing on their system, giving the PS3 a major case of the one-upsmanships.

Some interesting ideas though.

[nilihanth]

Yeah, the list of features in my posted article are indeed strange, but we're to take them with a grain of salt, it seems. It is more like a white-board discussion of what potential feature lists would be. I doubt there would actually be multiple packages that have different features while costing the same. I think, in the end, there will probably be two packages; one with all the features and one with only some.